Are there any experimental/homebuilt designs that are roughly analogous to
the Ercoupe in not needing rudder pedals? I haven't run across any, but
that probably just means I'm not doing a good search job.

"Jim Logajan" > wrote in message
.. .
> Are there any experimental/homebuilt designs that are roughly analogous to
> the Ercoupe in not needing rudder pedals? I haven't run across any, but
> that probably just means I'm not doing a good search job.

(OK, somebody's gotta ask) What do you have against rudder pedals?

Are you aware that rudder pedals were a factory option for the Ercoupe and one
of the more common mods?


Vaughn

Dear Jim,

As best I can recall, one of the Flying Car designs at Rockford had
the ailerons coupled to the rudder. But that's from the archive
between my ears. (Twin-boom configuration? )

-R.S.Hoover

"Vaughn Simon" > wrote:
> "Jim Logajan" > wrote in message
> .. .
>> Are there any experimental/homebuilt designs that are roughly
>> analogous to the Ercoupe in not needing rudder pedals? I haven't run
>> across any, but that probably just means I'm not doing a good search
>> job.
>
> (OK, somebody's gotta ask) What do you have against rudder pedals?

They make terrible places to rest my feet. ;-)

I bet you're one of them rudder pedal-philes! :-)

> Are you aware that rudder pedals were a factory option for the Ercoupe
> and one of the more common mods?

I know that some Ercoupes were sold with rudder pedals. That bit of
knowledge doesn't help me much in my quest, though.

Jim Logajan wrote:
> Are there any experimental/homebuilt designs that are roughly analogous to
> the Ercoupe in not needing rudder pedals? I haven't run across any, but
> that probably just means I'm not doing a good search job.
>


Flying Flea.


Althought the one I played with had a gas pedal.

--

Richard

(remove the X to email)

I believe the Sky Arrow was designed to be operated without rudder
pedals, but it seems the latest incarnations of the design have gone for
the more "traditional" controls.

It might be worth asking the manufacturer if it is still possible to
build the version without rudder pedals.

The American distributor seems to have dropped off the web:

http://www.skyarrowusa.com/


Here are some articles:

http://www.skyarrow.co.uk/flighttest.htm

http://www.aviatormag.com.au/stories/Dec07_Sky_Arrow.html


I just found this in an old avweb report:

"The Disabled Pilot Option has been available on other models of the Sky
Arrow, and will now be available for the LSA. The option allows pilots
who cannot operate the rudder pedals with their feet to apply yaw input
with a left side-stick that also includes a throttle control. The
standard, right side-stick controls pitch and bank, and also has buttons
for electric rudder and elevator trim as well as radio push to talk. As
always, the brake levers are controlled by the right hand. The left side
stick can be quickly removed for easy entry, and also makes the rudder
pedals available to able-bodied pilots."

cavelamb himself > wrote:
> Jim Logajan wrote:
>> Are there any experimental/homebuilt designs that are roughly
>> analogous to the Ercoupe in not needing rudder pedals? I haven't run
>> across any, but that probably just means I'm not doing a good search
>> job.
>
> Flying Flea.
>
>
> Althought the one I played with had a gas pedal.

Thanks! Looks to be an interesting design. Found many online resources,
including these:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_Flea
http://www.flyingflea.org/
http://www.valkyrie.net/~flyingflea/

On Oct 23, 4:34*pm, Jim Logajan > wrote:
> Are there any experimental/homebuilt designs that are roughly analogous to
> the Ercoupe in not needing rudder pedals? I haven't run across any, but
> that probably just means I'm not doing a good search job.

Spratt Controlwing. But it's not really analogous to the Ercoupe.

http://www.georgespratt.org/docs/ControlwingFlyingBoat.htm

Dan

Michael Henry > wrote:
> I believe the Sky Arrow was designed to be operated without rudder
> pedals, but it seems the latest incarnations of the design have gone for
> the more "traditional" controls.
>
> It might be worth asking the manufacturer if it is still possible to
> build the version without rudder pedals.

Thanks - I'll look into it. Although none of the references mention the
earlier pedal-less design, the descriptions do seem to paint it as a fine
aircraft. Interesting to see that the wikipedia page
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3I_Sky_Arrow) includes a link to this page:

http://www.atdd.noaa.gov/skyarrow.htm

wrote:
> On Oct 23, 4:34*pm, Jim Logajan > wrote:
>> Are there any experimental/homebuilt designs that are roughly
>> analogous to
>> the Ercoupe in not needing rudder pedals? I haven't run across any,
>> but that probably just means I'm not doing a good search job.
>
> Spratt Controlwing. But it's not really analogous to the Ercoupe.
>
> http://www.georgespratt.org/docs/ControlwingFlyingBoat.htm

Thanks - much appreciated! Just to be clear - the aspect that interests me
are experimental amateur built designs that attempt to "simplify" aircraft
controls. So the Spratt design is the sort of design I'm interested in
learning about.

Just to be clear - the aspect that interests me
> are experimental amateur built designs that attempt to "simplify" aircraft
> controls. So the Spratt design is the sort of design I'm interested in
> learning about.


We seem to be overlooking the obvious here. Wright Brothers machines
didn't have rudder pedals until at least 1916. Long after either of
the Wrights were designing them. The controllable rudder was designed
and built at Kitty Hawk between Oct 18 and Oct 21, 1902 for the 1902
glider. According to thier notebooks, it was Orville's idea to control
the rudder, but Wilbur's idea to incorportae the mechanism into the
existing roll controls. This was done by means of two wires that were
attached to the rear transverse warping wire on either side of the two
rear center wing struts.

By moving his hips side to side, the pilot slides the hip cradle which
pulls on one of the front wires while slacking the other. The front
wires run out to the wingtips parallel to the leading edge, through
pulleys on the lower front wingtips, and then up to the trailing edges
of the upper wing. As the wire pulls, the lower leading edge and upper
trailing edge are compressed toward each other forcing the biplane
wingtips to become parallelogram wingtips. Now here's the fun part.
The rear wire is passively controlled. It runs from one upper leading
edge wingtip down through a pulley on the lower trailing edge wingtip,
accross the wing parallel to the trailing edge, through another pulley
on the lower trailing edge wingtip, and then up to the the upper
leading edge wingtip. The action of warping the wing into a
parallelogram increases the distance between the upper leading edge
and the lower trailing edge. That pulls on the wire, which compresses
the lower leading edge and upper trailing edge, opposite of the other
wingtip, ergo, roll control. Now with those two rudder wires attached
to that rear warping wire, one gets pulled and the other gets slacked
when the wire slides back and forth. Its actually a VERY simple design
once you see it.

The 1903 and 1904 machines used a similar design, although the actual
placement of the parts was a little different. But by 1905, the
machine had enough power and stability to handle a seated pilot. A new
control system was devised which kept the earlier machines' lever
actuated elevator. But for roll and yaw, a second lever was added. The
top 8" of the lever was designed to hinge sideways, parallel to the
leading edge. Pushing and pulling the new lever fore and aft warped
the wings, while hinging the top of the lever right or up controlled
the rudder. Sounds kinda complex and goofy, but it worked and kept the
pilot's feet free to help hold onto the machine.

Harry "bitchin' hip-cradle bruise" Frey

On Oct 23, 5:34*pm, Jim Logajan > wrote:
> Are there any experimental/homebuilt designs that are roughly analogous to
> the Ercoupe in not needing rudder pedals? I haven't run across any, but
> that probably just means I'm not doing a good search job.

Obviously all the weight shift ultralight designs would qualify as
having no rudder. There are also several fixed wing ultralight designs
that have no ailerons. If your looking for simplified design, that is
where I would look. The vintage ultralight association seems to be
having some trouble with their website at the moment, but it will
likely be fixed soon. I believe they are at vula.org